Rule of thumb for pumps: Push, don't pull. When a vehicle is moving, a pusher fan can obstruct airflow due to its positioning in front of the radiator. With that exact cooler, you wont see a big difference in push vs. pull. Now the 140mm iPPC fans are miracles of engineering. And adding a fan wont actually do anything, again, it might help by 1C. The blades are meant to push that air through something. Push pull generally only nets you a2-3C temperature improvement at the expense of double the noise. If you are using standard 35mm or less rads, wont need static pressure fans. Worse with the mentioned grating in front, though. 3. You have a maximum of what atmospheric pressure can push, to pull into the pump. You can muffle more sound by placing fans on the inside of the radiator mounted to the case. That is not a thick radiator, so a push/pull setup would not really do anything except add noise. Here's an episode that we've been asked to do for quite some time. Let’s double check that at medium fan speeds. If you want to know about positive case pressure, just do a search. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Looks like you do though. Last edited by rotNdude ; May 17, 2019 @ 8:32am ... both fans produced better cooling on pull alone than with push/pull or push alone. Before even 2000RPM, of their 2200 max, these things are a buzzy mess pushing/pulling through that Fuma that I cannot stand for long periods of time (made worse by an open test bench). We have covered the basics about radiators in the Part 1 blog, and in Part 2 we even showed some charts. Another factor could be the fan speed. Unless your radiator is really think 60mm+, it's not restricting the fan. Dominic Moass December 28, 2016 Cooling, Featured Tech Reviews Testing methodology ... Reddit; Tags fan testing Hyper 212 LED Liquid freezer 240 push push/pull. TONS of people have asked me about fan configurations for radiators and heatsinks. As an aside, in my current build I've got three of my buzzy-boi 120mm iPPC fans pushing up through a 360x60mm radiator on the top of the case, but I've also got four 140mm iPPC fans in push/pull with a 280x60mm radiator in the front of the case. So make sure you plan for that. Opening out the back really shows the effect of an obstacle, even at some distance. A puller fan on the other hand sits right behind the radiator. Of coarse the delta is the bigger unknown. I feel just a push or pull is enough to sustain great temps but with higher rpms, but I was wondering if a person has high rpm fans that preformed great at high rpms would it be wrong to think that setting up push and pull for the 2 - 240 rads will allow me to get same performance with lower rpms. Thanks. They explain why push cools better. Not sure if you have the space for it in the case. Silent wings (not the high speed ones) give me the quietest operation in push (and or) pull, and are easy enough to get hold of cheaply. Directly comparable to the Noctua iPPC in static pressure. Push vs Pull. Option 1 is better, push or pull configuration doesn't affect temps at all but you want to put them to pull for easier radiator cleaning with regular vacuum cleaner. To clean it you have to take the fans off. You do not ever want the fans pulling air from the inside of case to outside, as the air will be hotter inside the case vs outside. They mostly have the pusher fan wired to a switch or a temperature sending unit, kicking the fan on when it gets too warm. It's driving me crazy and I love this community,always good advice. I have built high performance water systems than run no more than 2-3 degree deltas. Several fans have dead zones in the center that are fairly large in push configuration. I have also seen AIO kits push … Otherwise push is the way to go. When I have those same 120mm iPPC's in pull, only, then they are much quieter and I can easily leave them at a ~1000RPM minimum (as I have in an a media server right now) without really hearing anything other than air (case depending). Don't expect any crazy results from a push/pull configuration though, it's just a bit better than push, even though you are using twice the amount of fans. I used to think this too until I used some Noiseblocker e-loops. Well when they get noisey from obstruction they're definitely louder than 30db as a result. I always use water cooling but push VS pull often depends on where you're getting the air from and the type of fan. This from a guy who drives out to his crossroads Roadhouse in a flathead-6 Ford pickup with crank-down windows to push quarters into a … Here I have shared about the different fan setup you can use in your pc build like push, pull and push/pull. Maybe 1C. Another thing we’d like to note, not related to the push-pull configurations is that Vardar fans do slightly better in pull configurations. 30 fpi I would recommend a slim rad, like 27mm thick. Tested push/pull with 2 different fans Discussion I was told that having 2 different fans in a push pull setup was not going to work as well as regular push fans, because of something to do with the pulses caused by the fan blades getting out of sync. Push-pull fan configuration will allow you to get even better thermals and make sure you squeeze some more MHz out of your hardware. More fans blowing in than out. When you have a push config, the dust ends up between the radiator and fan. The difference between push and pull is very small. Electrical fans can either push air through the radiator or pull air through it. 2-26-15 Domain upgrade expired, this is the new permanent address. Whenever I put the iPPCs in push, or have something like a grating in front of them to pull through, they just get unpleasant buzzing/buffeting at 1000 RPM, and up, that sounds almost like a bearing (thought it was first time I heard this). Really isnt worth it. Silent Wings 3 High Speed fans. These fans compete directly with each other and are really good performers, in my opinion. just got a 240mm Radiator water cooling closed loop and need to know ware is the best place to mount it in my case either on the front or on top of the case also which way should i have the fans push or pull if i put the radiator on the top or front on the case. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Testing push vs pull vs push/pull. Preference should be given to a "pull" vs. a "push" fan. It looks really similar to the pump on the previous ML240L RGB at first glance, but you can immediately notice the difference in height between both pumps if it’s compared side by side – the ML240L V2 RGB pump is visibly taller than the ML240L RGB. Part 2 clarified things about radiator performance, how radiator performance is expressed and how do we read radiator performance charts. It's discussed 100 times a month over at BAPC. Also, I would recommend putting the fan in a pull configuration rather than push, as it makes it way easier to clean dust from the radiator. I doubt the direction of the fans will change their decibel output. However, I'll give you my experience with my 120mm Noctua iPPC fans and my Bequiet! Water cooling systems -- whether they are a custom loop or an AIO-- all follow the same basic principles. This post doesn't have any useful information: https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/4yr1mj/is_there_a_difference_between_push_and_pull_when/. I just wanted a little help and insight on to which method to use and what the flow of air in my case should be? The Choice Gallery. If you had an average 10c water to air delta, that would equal about 3C. When I look at the Noctua A12x25 fans, in reviews with or without their new tower cooler, I'm very curious about them because even though they've got a lower static pressure rating than either of those two mentioned fans, above, they're supposedly just really pleasant sounding at higher RPMs negating any need for higher static pressure fans in push that are buzzy and annoying at half the rated RPM to begin with. With that exact cooler, you wont see a big difference in push vs. pull. Push, pull, or push/pull? That's a whole lot of the radiator (or heatsink for air cooling) that's not getting any air over it. A pusher fan sits in front of the radiator. Maybe 1C. All shrouded fans should be on the engine side of the radiator. When you have a pull config you get dust on the opposite side of the radiator from the fans. Read the Guides at the EKWB site for more information. So an obvious question arises, “Is it better to use the fan to push fresh air into the unit to be cooled (positive pressure), or to put the fan on the exhaust side and pull heated air through and out of it (negative pressure) (see Figure 1)?” It seems like a simple-enough question, and … Push pull would benefit more if it was the monsta size (like 80mm) 60mm thick, you could get away with just push. If extra fans are available using them to make a push/pull configuration will result in the same temps using lower RPM. Always use the right shroud with your fan. Probably not even push/pull with a good air flow fan. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/4yr1mj/is_there_a_difference_between_push_and_pull_when/. Hyper 212+ testing, Push vs Pull vs Push Pull; Also Horizontal vs Vertical positioning. But i would use a pair of air fans over a static pressure in a pull layout. But, in short, if you've got a 120mm fan based radiator setup planned then likely you'll end up with the Noctua A12x25 as a good push/pull, push, or pull choice (I keep hearing that the black ones are supposed to be coming soon...). The air flow noise with push pull can be pretty loud though if you get fans that spin fast enough. As mentioned earlier, the ML240L V2 RGB is equipped with the latest 3rd generation dual-chamber pump by Cooler Master. The search box on the left should still work to find the new URLs as do the categories and latests post widgets on the left, but my old menu system is redirecting… So just run it as is. Which do I recommend? Op, best thing might be to test that before you mount everything in the case. Other than that when shopping for fans choose the ones that have lower decibel output while maintaining good CFM. View Entire Discussion (5 Comments) More posts from the watercooling community Oh and a Push/Pull configuration can be better than just a pull or push. The air flow noise with push pull can be pretty loud though if you get fans that spin fast enough. Learn more about ASRocks new X99 Taichi at http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99%20Taichi/index.us.asp and Fatal1ty X99 Professional Gaming … either push pull or just push would be fine. Generally push plus pull or two pumps in series provides about a 30% flow gain. :h34r-smiPhanteks Owners Club:h34r-smiWays to Better Cooling :h34r-smii7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socket:h34r-smiPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X @ 4.0GHz =R1 … A plow doesnt suck the dirt up to displace it. So less noise for the same cooling or better cooling for the same noise/RPM. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the watercooling community, Press J to jump to the feed. That's more important than push/pull etc. Silent Wings 3 HS (and some others) in push, pull, and push/pull. Those have a distinct drone in pull config that is very unpleasant to the ears. This time 1300RPM Push/Pull vs 1400RPM Push: I'm very pleased with these, and, honestly, think I just need to move to all 140mm fan based radiators for my next build. You have the reservoir, the pump, the radiator, the fans, some tubing, a … New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the watercooling community, Press J to jump to the feed. Fans move air through the radiator assisting in cooling the engine. Silent wings (not the high speed ones) give me the quietest operation in push (and or) pull, and are easy enough to get hold of cheaply. I wouldn't recommend adding more fans to make it push pull. More importantly is having a higher amount of pressure in your case. Keep in mind that the static pressure spec for these fans is like 4 mmH20 at 2000 RPM, but also only 30db at its max. A push/pull is less than 10% more efficient than either a Push or a Pull configuration. Please excuse the broken menu system while I work on fixing the links. Mounted on the engine side of the radiator, a pull fan does not interfere with airflow at highway speeds. If my goal is a fairly silent build, should I have my fans set up to push or pull air through the radiator on a liquid cooling setup? Read a review or two of the new DH-U12A to get an idea about how these fans perform/sound. I just recently bought a new case the Phantom 820, kraken x61 cpu watercooler, and and I7 I want to overclock. Time to continue the story about radiators for liquid cooling. This would mean using any extra fans in push/pull makes little difference as the air is already flowing easily enough, rendering the extra fans redundant. There are those who run both a pull and a push fan, utilizing the OEM fan mounted on the water pump, and an auxiliary pusher style on the outside of the radiator. much easier to clean, and the same performance. I have put my hand on the output side of fans and heard the fans slow down. At the end of each month, the mod team decides which builds have impressed them enough to make it into this gallery. 15 feet of water column is a loss of approximately 6 psi dead loss (out of 14.7 or so) before figuring any friction losses on the suction side. You’ll see there are two distinct groups – the Push/Pull radiators from 76% up, and the push only group from 40-50% In other words ANY radiator with push/pull fans is significantly better than ANY radiator with push only fans at similar RPM. No matter the the RPM, or obstruction, they just sound like like louder and louder wind as their RPM goes over 1500 when I'm benchmarking (I don't really let them get over 1000RPM for daily use). You don't want every fan pushing in, but lets say you have 5 fans... 3 should go in, 2 should go out. Not much power in sucking it up. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I wouldn't recommend adding more fans to make it push pull. My build: Z170x gaming 7 i5-6400 OC to 4.8ghz by BCLK If you have the money, free fanheaders/splitters then go for push/pull. I'd say it depends a lot on the fan choice. Id like it to be more of a discussion with thoughts about this, there is no true answer to this and I'm willing to accept that but I love trying new configurations and maybe I'll get more cooling due to a pull over a push! I would however always have the fan pull air from the outside of the case to inside. I don't think push or pull really makes a difference to the cooling of the CPU, it has more to do with where the removed heat is directed after leaving the fan. Unless your radiator is really think 60mm+, it's not restricting the fan. Neal: The majority of the time, if you're doing push-pull, the whole point isn't necessarily to get better cooling, it's to get the same cooling with less noise because you can turn the fans down. Find out what fan configuration is best for cooling down your radiator. 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